4 évad / 22. epizód – Innovation methods and SMEs – sneak peak into the WIN4SMEs project

[music] Greetings to all. This is the digit podcast. My name is Lasstolo Seam, executive partner of Future Now and my godfather co-founder is Sultan Ser from OD and [music] IT solutions and sailing hunger. Hello, good day everyone. The aim of digit podcast is to allow anyone ungratified with sketchy articles and catchy slogans to familiarize with the key trends of digital transformation and IT solutions. Here we will dive deep into [music] life in tech. [music] What's the difference betweenmesmemes who can [music] attract young talent and who cannot? Why did vocational training lose its student base and should we reverse this trend or not? What keeps from innovating on their own? Can ourmemes in Europe allow not to look abroad for market for education and even for employees? I am pleased to have here in digit podcast two partners of the win formemes project. One of them is Mikar Christiansen from international business college uh Denmark. Welcome.

Yeah, thank you. And the other guest is Mr. Thomas Retik, the international adviser of EPOS, the Hungarian Association of Craftsman's Corporations. Hello, good to see you. Yeah, it's great having both of you here. We have just arrived from a workshop that Mick had with a Hungarian um theme uh company. So we will talk about that a bit well. But to start I think um I would talk a bit about why there is a project called win formemes. Why do we need such a project? Um I read about it and it says that it is about workplace innovation. Right? It's a it's based on a 2022 European Commission report, an analysis that found most in Europe focus almost exclusively on the technological innovation and largely they they largely ignore organizational innovation, business model innovation.

Is this something that you also found too uh in your personal experience working with withmemes? Is this the reason that you joined this win formemes project? I think it's u an extremely interesting project they started and to um but also very interesting is that this project win forme is actually the second project under the arasmus project that we are running actually together. So both uh projects have something to do with about innovation innovation uh in the different organization small and medium enterprises and yeah uh actually I think that um there are extremely many small enterprises all over Europe that uh simply need to be more innovative to target the market for the future. You know mostmemes understand the importance of innovation but but they see several barriers in Hungary especially the the first uh um you know problem is is the limited capacity um mostly in in human resource. Uh so the companies here in Hungary the small companies are focused mostly mostly on on daily operation and and survival. It means that many times not only eight hours work but but usually 10 12 or or or maybe more. So the question uh they they they lack like time the the the financial resources and

and of course the specialist staff uh who are dedicated to to innovation and we have this project uh uh the infinium project where we try to uh step over these barriers. So I fancy that you you see the same problems across Europe um with withmemes and innovation how they can approach innovation how they can do innovation and I remember that uh you said that the most of the boundaries are only in our head they are not not written they they are not enforced on us uh but they are just there for like maybe generations even. So yeah, what what is the the feeling the first you know impression that you have working with a Hungarian company? Um what could be the door or at least the window that you can easily open in in a company? are in digit podcast because we have a lot of audience who are company managers. Uh if if you know you you wanted to give them one advice that tomorrow please do this thing this has a big chance to open a window to the innovation because you can break some of these these imagined barriers that are not written and enforced.

I think uh it will be a good idea to describe the project uh a little and then afterwards I can we can open the window together actually. So what I find very interesting about this win formemes is actually the most complex cover project EU ever have run. Let me explain. Um what we are targeting is the different boundaries. So the boundaries and bias that can be cultural and the problem when we are talking about innovation in many countries they you are talking about innovation you can call it in a higher level normally at the university level. Um so this project win formemes actually is also something about learning what innovation is and how uh to love innovation or how to do innovation also in small enterprises. So what I'm trying to say here is that when we are targeting the EQF level this project win formemes is actually in targeting from EQF level number three uh to uh number seven.

What does that mean if someone is not familiar with this coding? Yeah, EQF is a is a level is a range uh that you can see uh EQF level number three that will be normally on the vocational side uh just after the ground school. Mhm. And if we are targeting EQF level number seven that will normally be on the on the master level uh at the universities. So in this project we actually uh designing testing uh programs that will fit into uh EQF level number three and it will fit into level number seven when we uh focusing on the school side. Beyond that we also have represented uh from the company side. So all countries uh uh all countries uh has their own kova uh project or kova partner. So in Denmark we have the school side and we have the business side and you also have that here in Hungary there will always be a school side and a company side represented into the uh into this project.

Who are the players uh in the project from Hungary? Epos I know. Are there any others? Yeah. Yes. Yes. There's a uh vocational uh training school from from your D friends uh um technical uh school um or economical school. Um unfortunately because of the Arasmus uh uh uh uh it's an arasmos project and and the universities uh most of the universities at this moment are excluded. But uh uh to be honest in in in in the implementation of of of the Hungarian side of the project, we always uh uh involved uh university lecturers in in the in the implementations because because we we know that uh uh you know there is a knowledge I would say a high level but uh which is most important really practicable knowledge uh in in universities. is what uh the SMMES uh should know and should should apply in in their daily uh uh um business business activities.

Yeah. And uh apart from Dur like today we had a workshop in Gdul. So the project is not focused exclusively on on on the city of Dur. Um coming back to the to the skill level, I was uh uh astonished to to actually see that what you do, the skill set or the the exercises that you teach are usable in such a diverse environment. So let's say I have a small I don't know logistics company or maybe a small manufacturer like I'm manufacturing creams or or some special food. I would have uh production people, I would have finance director, I would have the business development or or sales uh director, I would have truck drivers even in 20 30 people company. A very diverse uh type of of people. But what you actually do is to make them sit and work together using the same innovation techniques, right? Is that right?

This is totally right. So that it can be all levels in the companies and um to to to go a little deeper into the question you can say that what I have been facing for the last 20 years I've been working with innovation for more than 20 years that will be that innovation normally will be uh a boss for the university levels uh and perhaps also for the huge companies uh many people are talking about that university is something at the high level but in my opinion um innovation is much more for the small and medium enterprises. We have the numbers. We have the challenges. We have the opportunity to learn especially this little uh micro skills I call it to be more innovative because the daily challenges will be from uh from the employee from the mostly from the blue collar employees and often they also have the the a solution for their own problems. Um so therefore we just need to find the right solution uh before we just go directly into actions.

So innovation can be many things. Um and uh you you have a working definition for that yourself but also I know that being forme project is spec especially focused on one type of innovation which is the workplace innovation. Can you talk a bit about that what it means for you to what it means for for you Mick? Um yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely you know um we have many different courses uh uh it's not a a directly uh technical change uh what what innovation uh means means for us but for example how to uh uh build uh a relationship with the with the employees I mean a partnership between the the staff members and and the management and and and the and the CEO or or the leader of a company, you know, it's a it's a company culture. Uh how to uh increase the the the commitment of of the employees, how to motivate them uh uh to uh provide um 10 or 15 uh um new ideas uh per week to to to a company. uh it's um require uh you know it's question of uh bottom up or or or where where the information where from the impetus should come at first you know uh I think it's my impression that in in in Hungarian culture we think that uh that the impetus should arrive from the top level what we learn today uh from from

from Michael uh that that uh uh the the ideas should come from from from the base level from from the employees. Uh to be honest, it's absolutely uh um a new uh idea for me and it's a challenge for for the Hungarian companies. I think uh just uh uh because the the the staff the employees should persuade the company leaders that uh uh there are many ways for a company to be more in innovative. What do you think Mick about the definition also but uh but also about whose responsibility it would be. First of all I would like to mention that there can be different definitions of what this project actually is. So we coming from these nine different countries and I don't think that we are totally in common with the definition of workplace innovation.

Run a series that we invite the other partners. [laughter] Yeah, we we had this we had this opportunity. So we are now we are two years old project. Uh it total it is a 4 years program we are running. In my opinion, when we're talking about workplace innovation, this uh definition will be more or less on a strategic level. So, how can different companies actually uh implement to be more innovative from a top bottom thoughts. So that will be the my definition of workplace innovation. But we uh beyond that what we also are talking about how can we actually upskill the employees skills in innovation and that was Thomas just mentioned earlier that will be an bottom up approach. So that we need to to so there will be a combination from top down and from up bottom but we need to focus on how can we actually get more out of our employees in an innovative way. What do you think in Europe? Do we have one working culture or do we have many? You were talking about uh the employees need to convince the management to to look at things differently. But in some cultures that's a telling culture. The management is expected to tell what to do because that's why they are here there. That's why they have the best education. They

need to be able to tell the what we all as a company need to do otherwise they are not good managers. That's the expectation uh in the culture I mean and then some other cultures are asking cultures like I think the Danish culture is a good example of that then the management is is there to ask the right questions and ask questions all the time and listen and then together uh you will find answers but if no one asks the questions especially not the right ones then the company will not proceed or not uh not flourish and the expectation is not towards the managers is not that they tell what to do Okay. Mhm. So now we are targeting actually one of the things that I love about the win for theme at most is actually to go and listen read and to be together with other partners from Europe uh into this project and to to learn from their side actually how difficult or how easy actually innovation actually can be in the end. So um each country also have their own boundaries. Each country have their own boundaries when we're talking about culture. Each country has their own boundaries when we talking about how innovative is you allowed to be actually and will the innovation come from the top or will it actually come from the

bottom. So, so yeah, we are eight, we are nine different partners, nine different countries, 18 partners and we definitely can see that there are also 18 different boundaries how we work with innovation in our school system, in our vocational system, in our university system and in our business system. we still haven't mentioned uh the consumers the customers you know and and maybe maybe most of the innovation should derive from from the customer uh it's customer centered innovation you know and uh I think it's maybe the only question of of communication how we can get the the the exact information what the what the customer is really want, you know. Um today we had an excellent uh workshop to together with with with uh with u many uh uh staff members of a of a company uh only only only the the customers maybe what I I I missed I mean one or two uh customers uh who could tell uh yes it's a good idea you you as a company should should do this you know Many many times u it's it's my my impression um you know many times companies goes to to team building activities you know and they spend uh their days together of course uh uh they they are working uh uh in during the week and and the team building

activities maybe they should invite one or two uh uh audience I mean consumers and um that could help to improve their their services. It's it's an idea. Yeah. I mean uh uh at one uh place uh I used to go to these focus group the company organized with the clients on different topics and I understood that my role in the company was not customerf facing as they say in English. So I I didn't regularly meet with the with the company's customers. So for me it was not revelation but it was good information. I could pick up things during these focus group conversations with the clients which were of course managed by a professional facilitator. However, those guys who work with clients regularly who are in sales or in customer service most of the things they if they are good uh in their job they knew already. If of course if they are bad in their job that's a very bad news because every customer service representative or every customer sales person should really be able to communicate to listen uh to the client.

what they should be able to know. Uh however um I know that Mick has worked a lot also with large companies. Um and you have some techniques, some practices, workshops that you developed working with LIGO, working with Danfos and you can mention others as well. Um and then uh in these projects, this is I think you mentioned the second one. uh you try to translate this into the small word into this small company um situation. So did you have to change anything in the in the methods in the content of the workshops? Yeah, definitely definitely what we are uh the first thing I would like to to point out into the discussion here is that for me there will be several different kinds of innovation workshops.

So what we had today at the company is what were what I am calling internally innovation workshops because we targeting a problem internally the problem Thomas what you mention here that you miss the customers then the process will have be uh customerdriven innovation workshops you meth the the tools will be totally the same but the problem will be different actually right and that is what I think or actually I know uh what we are facing in the in the few in the future to come that uh customer-driven innovation workshops that will the number will raise because it is so important to it is so expensive to develop new products for for the market that we need to have the customers as a part of the innovation process so that we are more or less sure that what we develop also will there will be a buyer at the other side but there will be a customer driven innovation workshops uh for me so externally okay but given that anme has maybe five maybe 50 employees but with that size I feel like almost everyone in the company would face clients if not uh for other maybe just because they are sitting next to the client sales representative maybe it's just because they need to cross the the servicing

area in order to get to their workplace or whatever. So there is not that much need to have these the these big you know methodical uh days with the clients if every day everybody hears some feedback here's some discussions here's some problems from the clients but what I was thinking is that do you see differences uh in terms of the the upskilling needs of people working in in large companies with multiple thousands people or anme me given that the industry would be the same of course because yeah if if you're working in agriculture or banking that's yeah that's different but I'm I'm looking for size differences if there are any but if they're not that's also a learning point yeah I think it will be placed more into the culture culture in the country and more specific culture in the different uh companies so what I can recognize is that when you are working in large companies is they have more standards that you need to follow. How to be innovative actually more or less compared to small companies where we just uh running u innovation process that can there can be one or two hours and then we are finished in the small companies. So they are more focuses focusing uh how much time we would like

to use to run this kind of innovation process. compared to the large companies, time is more expensive to small ones. Exactly. Building on the cultural element, um being a Danish person, um how do you see what can Danish culture in company terms uh teach other uh countries, company cultures, maybe in Hungary, maybe in some the seven other countries in the project and what Denmark should learn? What do you think you missed the most in Denmark? That's the second part. I the the first question will from my point of view be something to learn all employees to be more innovative. First thing to know what innovation actually is to learn some some tools and also the implementation part what many companies actually missed. uh so it is perhaps good to have good an a good idea but the the idea is first good if you have implemented uh in one or two different processes. Question number two, definitely I think that we can learn so much from each other. Um, and that is also the reason that that Denmark is a part of this u project win formemes is actually to learn from from other um universities, from other countries, from other business and and from other vocational school system. So we can learn so much from each other actually

just to be a part in this project. After the two years that's been spent uh do you recall anything that uh that you didn't know before that you could you could bring back to the Danish culture and workshops? Uh definitely uh what I can see at the Danish culture is the way that we are building up our organization. We have very flat hierarchy. We have very flat organization in Denmark. So that would be very short distance to the manager or actually to the CEO compared what you have here in in Hungary. There will be a much more uh a bigger or higher hierarchy in the different organizations and that have huge uh inputs or u impact. Yeah. Have a huge impact on the uh on the innovation way of living. you can say it's a tradition in this digit podcast that you're sitting in uh to give us a break alpha into the conversation. So um [snorts] we should now get to know a bit the person uh who is talking um since Mick is from a seaside country and Tamsh is strongly connected to Lake Palatin.

In fact right after this talk you will head off to to have a similar workshop tomorrow in uh in the Batin area. Um I would like to know more about your relationship personally um with waters. Uh what what what attachment do you have? Uh I mean do you sail? Do you swim? Do you like to to stop or cruise ships maybe? Whatever comes to your mind. So so what actually is very interesting about Denmark is that the length of the coastline is more or less the same as Brazil or India. So we have water around us enormous you can say and if you're on the top place fair and on the top Greenland is also a part of the the kingdom in in Denmark. So we are very used to have water uh all around us. So that means that it is very common in all families that their kids need to swim and that is also in my history. So my parents sent me to a swimming hall uh to a swimming pool in the age of 6 years and I have been swimming there for the last 50 years actually starting original swimmer and ended up with a water polo person. So I have been playing water polo for the last 30 years.

Very well. And I think you you told me that you also coach uh people uh for both sports or had been. Yeah, I have been coaching our local uh swim club for uh yeah, two decades I will say on all levels from babies to competitions to water polo. Yeah, nice to you yourself about water. Yeah. What do you do? Uh yeah, I'm quite uh uh big fan of of of Balaton. uh my wife's uh family has a cottage there. So uh uh a few years ago together with uh we have an association uh uh just to protect uh the values uh uh in in a small village called Zamardi uh and it's association started to organize a local market [snorts] uh in in in Zomardi it's called I am Jeem sunset on the market, [snorts] you know, and and uh in this summer we we will organize uh this this market again on every Wednesday evening um around uh 35 local producers, craftsman's uh bring uh their their really uh uh valued products and to sell it. Um there's a in summertime there's quite a huge market you know a lot of tourists etc. So it's it's good for for the local producers to to uh show their their products and you know somehow I think it's it's um you know because around the lake and the the the cities the the villages you know full of uh you

[snorts] know wealthier people and they have cottages etc. And I think they they are a little bit responsible to to the villages which are 10 or 15 or 20 kilometers away from the lake you know because it's something social responsibility or something like this because uh the people who who live 15 or 20 kilometers away from the lake uh and and they they produce uh uh uh many good things uh they can sell uh it on on the market on on Zomar de Mar. So, uh yes, I I I I uh waiting for for the summer. Mhm. And to to be on on the lake. Oh, I see. Yeah. Okay. Um well, maybe just a word from me as well. Um I like to swim. Uh whenever I go to go to a conference hotel that has a swimming pool, whatever small it is, I try it in the morning uh before breakfast. Um, but I also like the large u horizon uh on big big oceans or or or seaside. So that gives me some kind of calmness and and perspective that I cannot get anywhere else um on earth just next to on on top of these large waters. Uh so I'm glad that uh we share that passion a bit from one side to the other. Um now Mick uh you facilitated the innovation workshop for management um basically today and um you use these tools to to generate maybe thousands of

ideas um in in short time. Uh today we we didn't manage that and I I when I read the the concept I was already thinking that well it's overly ambitious um especially in our country. So um what uh I would like you to do now is to walk us through what actually happened uh in today's session in the workshop today uh in your eyes um and what impact uh you think that it had on the company people that you that participated. Mhm. So what I could recognize and thank you for that Thomas that you gave me this opportunity today to see it with my own eyes actually is that so in Denmark we have been um organized or managed uh several of innovation process and what I can see the the the biggest difference between a process in Denmark compared to innovation process in in Hungary was the actually I would call it the energy into in the home and a part of this energy that will of course be the participants. So how much would they actually love to be a part of this uh innovation pro process?

Uh from my point of view it was an okay innovation process. It was not great but in average it was okay. We managed to um come up with around 150 new ideas uh and then we collect them into small groups. Uh and in the end we started or they have now the company um has the opportunity to start up at least seven projects u at that problem you were talking today. So it was I think from the beginning with it it is okay but from a Danish perspective um I think it will be in in the lower end when we're talking about the numbers of the ideas that we can achieve. Why is it important to have so many ideas because in innovation we believe in the in the thought about um quantity so as many ideas as possible. So therefore in innovation process um thousand ideas or 2,000 ideas that's actually would be totally great and then we convert them into concrete actions and that perhaps only can be five or 10 concrete projects quality projects. So we need the quantity to find the quality. Uh I remember you used a very simple model for for innovation skills that were that that has three elements the the head the heart uh and legs. Um and when it comes to that um again uh talking from manager to manager or from

coach to manager what uh can you do to realize if you you as a team or as a company have uh a balance in that uh how innovation can be uh managed or can flourish in a company because of the balance between the head the heart and the legs. Maybe uh maybe for the audience we need to explain a bit I know but uh it's an interesting part of of the learning curve here. So I designed uh an illustration. It's I call him the innovation man. Um so uh the head tell us something about the knowledge that the person have. How much do you actually know in this situation about innovation? The second part of the innovation man will be the heart. And the heart is a symbol from how much do you actually love or can feel the energy um in the innovation process and not least uh the third will be the legs and often also the most um difficult things to to implement is uh is the what I'm calling the doers or the the action part.

Um so back to the question um my feeling or my knowledge is that extremely many people think what they that they know something about innovation but when we are starting to talk with them um I will guess 80% of them will say that have something to do with new products but innovation is much more than just new products so so my definition of innovation will be that it need to have be something new. Add on uh something that to give you some value and not at least that it need to give you some uh um impact that you need to bring that into real actions actually. So that is my definition of uh of uh innovation. Too many people knows too much about what innovation actually is but uh they do not not have any feelings to this way of living to this way of thoughts and they definitely do not have the the the big legs I call it as how to implement it in the real life.

So u they they had the the heart and the legs to to see if it if it is in balance then you would measure all the three right somehow in the company. Yeah. Um I think one of the answers could be that innovation process is for teams. Of course you can be innovative uh on your own but you will have some several challenges and boundaries. So when we are targeting let's say 5 8 10 15 group size um dentist can start to have the feeling that there will be x numbers in this group uh who are very good at knowing things that is what I'm calling those with the big heads u and there will be several other people that find this u innovation process very funny and full of energy and not least there will be some uh people in the group that will be more uh active orientated and actually bringing the new ideas into actions.

So you need to make sure that in this group there will be thinkers, there will be lovers and there will be um uh doers. Can I have a question? You you have many experiences and um could you find all the three categories in every group? Could you meet uh with the head with the hurt with the leg type of personalities? Yeah, I don't think that it would be possible for just if you are if you're measuring on one workshop but but the most innovation workshop from a management point of view then it need to be a daily uh daily challenge for each managers to collect uh employees around a whiteboard and say I know that somebody knows something about this challenge and I know that somebody can bring in some what I'm calling feeling or um motivation motivations part uh and and and to bring in the energy into the group and I also know that I have some employees that actually are very good at doing things.

Let's talk a bit about the challenges that uh in Europe our SMMES need to tackle today that was very um concrete um it came up from the group quickly that uh they feel like they don't have time they are in a small company uh they don't have enough time to to innovate uh so they rather not start it because they don't feel like it's worth it because they cannot finish and that we tackled and we talked about a bit that it's different of course compared to large companies they can spend spend a lot of time on creativity. But even in small companies, they can they can reorganize a bit uh in order to have more time or they can come up with some very concrete ideas like we did today. How to make time for for a bit of innovation. Uh what are the challenges? Um one thing came to my mind that generation change is a big uh issue uh in several countries especially in Hungary. We see that many uh companies have managers who should now really retire and hand over the business. Uh and I'm curious if you have good experience um across the the nine countries actually how innovation can can play a part in this generation change. How with innovation or with with focus on innovation you can help uh motivate the next generation uh the

people who could take over the companies. how some innovation can help um the transition which is normally a very big transition from decades of of experience with one leader or one manager and then something falls apart uh when he leaves or she leaves. How do you do you see that? You know last in the previous week we we organized a a conference uh European conference because we we know such uh phenomenon or or uh realities this freedom of uh uh provide services uh um uh freedom of movement uh uh so a lot of freedom which which help uh uh the EU to to be one single market and um you know uh maybe some some of the central European or rather the the eastern central eastern European countries uh were uh uh affected uh uh by this uh singer Europe uh uh possibilities challenges you know and and uh last year uh Erica uh wrote uh a new article. It's a a new freedom. It's a freedom of uh of stay.

you know, it's it's something that uh uh we uh central or eastern European countries should do everything to to provide the the same level of of well-being uh uh for for for the companies for for their employees for their employees. And um you know for this conference what we organized uh the previous week we invited uh uh PE uh company leaders from Poland, from Romania, Bulgaria you know and it was quite interesting that for example from from Poland you know uh a new generation company leader arrived a butcher you know and he was absolutely uh uh you uh ready to to be active on on the local market. It's it's it's really important for for for them uh as a as a as a Polish small companies. But uh he was also uh brought uh some some videos some uh uh uh broadcasting material as as he would like to enter in in other uh markets Hungarian etc. So um somehow we should keep uh enough strong to be uh a local company. Uh these thememes should be ready uh to to be active on the on the on the EU market as well. Yeah. And it uh it it means I think innovation as well. how how they could uh um motivate their employees to to come to Hungary and and and sell their uh Polish products in in Hungary. You know, it's

it's also a motivation. To answer this question, I get inspiration from the upcoming generation what we seeing in Europe as a group we calling them generation. I will normally get inspiration from uh from pink and one of the um the theory about from from pink motivation theory it's tell us to be um that you need to take care of your own life um autonomy I think that the English word is u so so so you have the the own stick in your hand and you can direct your own life in this direction you would like too. So that is one of the most important uh motivations elements that the pink is pointing out. Further it need to be a purpose. So if I don't can see the meaning with uh with everything that I'm doing and finally we can talk about mastery and and that is actually a very interesting uh point is using here in his theory because it's uh normal human being that we would like to get better at things that motivate us extremely much and especially this generation set. So let us have a A basic example, if we are having uh if we are having barbecue on the Saturday, we would like to do the barbecue a little better next time we uh we are having a barbecue. So, so what's motivate especially generation said that will be

that to get better at things all the time. I see. And the yeah, I agree that also talent attraction is one of uh the cores within the project but within our SMMES as well because the small companies sometimes find it very hard to attract people uh and compete on the job market with large companies who have the resources to mobilize people who have the resources to train their employees uh and to create much larger impact within the company even or or across the markets. uh and these companies are more and more not only European local market companies or or regional ones but also the the upcoming or incoming Aasian companies and of course we had that feeling when the American companies built factories and stuff like that but it's it was still somehow closer I guess uh to our culture at least and I think that there can be some genuine some concrete advantages a well organized and innovative can offer uh to to these young people right which large corporations may be not able to to do that. For example, uh getting back to the local market. If some is, you know, organizing local markets, let's say across, I know that it's just for Zamari, but let's imagine uh some companies organizing these local

markets in several or many places across the country. That's a purpose that is very attractive to young people who who also would like to to help uh these these villages. And then there is a purpose there is some more energy more motivation whether if the large combination has opposed maybe they can say that yeah we can work together with you and you can help us get 10% extra sales next year on our car. It's not so much of a purpose right. Um yeah we are running out of time so so let's get somewhere to the end. Um at least with one more question. Um you're in the middle of the project. there's still like almost two years to go. So, you can still change, you can still start or stop things. Um, when you look back at the the original assumptions 3 years ago when you wrote the project description, um, are the assumptions still valid? Are the problems you saw then, uh, 3 years ago, let's say, more or less, are still valid today? And um are responding well to the planned actions to the activities or you need to need to come up with new activities to be successful. The activities what we we've done in the project are only the first steps you know and and uh uh it's good that uh we could uh move into this direction.

Um, you know, just a week ago, we we we signed a cooperation agreement with the well-being association uh in in in Hungary. uh and um we will uh write down uh just benchmark what what the hunger andmemes uh should should fulfill uh uh for for their employees because it has many many uh lacks uh uh this well-being uh ecosystem and it's important uh um to to keep uh our or our staff members uh to to involve their their uh uh knowledge to to gain their innovative ideas. Uh so um I think we are not in the middle of of this process. We are at the beginning of this process. If we would come back a year later uh we could tell you a lot of uh new uh results you know. Yeah. From my point of view actually it's very interesting question to ask because yes we are a two two years old uh program. We have been running this program for the last two years. Um but the application research is more than four years ago actually and try just to imagine how much it have been happen just for the last four years. We have a war in Ukraine. We have something going on with Iran and not least technology, all the AI coming up. Uh it's going so fast. So I totally agree with with Thomas that perhaps we are just in the beginning uh

because things around us is going so fast. Yeah. And I was told once by an innovation and and future research expert that believe me you will never feel the world as slow as today. [laughter] So again uh we are we are getting faster and faster with that. So um yeah and I think it's a very important point that uh we we maybe didn't touch uh during the workshop but here that uh I think it's not only for for the young people to feel um able to to to act on your life or to to guide or steer your life this kind of autonomy. It's also important for everybody to some extent maybe for them a bit more important and to to to have this u agency that the feeling that you can do um something to change your lives you can you can make it better um actually innovation is one way to show uh to these employees in the company that you have something uh to to do and I remember that you talked about in the beginning of of our workshop that uh part of the reason why Danish people are saying they are happier or more Danish people say they are happy than than in other nations is that they feel the ability to solve their problems. They don't have less problems. They just feel more agency, more more control over

their problems because they have more tools to solve that because they have more friends and connections and partners to solve the problem together or because they just have more people to to sit together and talk about it and and maybe not solve it but at least you share it. Is that right? To answer this question that will be much more complex because what is the definition of happy or happiness? But yeah, Denmark is definitely one of the most happiest countries in the world together with Sweden, Norway and Finland. But but I really believe that it starts from a childhood very very early in in life. um how to act and how to uh how to work with complex uh problems actually and how to have a huge uh influence uh of the solution in all levels. So from child from young people to teenager to grown-ups. Last summer, uh we organized a an entrepreneurial camp for the best um idea openers of the scientific and innovation Olympics, you know, it's for for the uh for high school generation.

Yeah. Yeah. For for secondary level schools. And and last year we uh could invite uh as I remember 12 young talented person. Maybe the the best moment of of of this camp was when uh uh the the 12 uh extremely talented young uh person could meet with uh with local uhmeers and there was a uh it's a workshop on on lean management and and and a young talented uh person and and a very experienced theme uh owners work together. It was something extremely beautiful and and uh you know we had this this exhibition just uh just just on Friday and Saturday and uh as I know almost 600 new innovative ideas uh arrived to this competition this year to this innovative and and scientific uh Olympic of of Hungary. So I think I think yeah the new generation yeah can can can add on Thomas if you're working with 600 new ideas concrete ideas that will be quality ideas so before that you perhaps have around 6,000 ideas converted into really qualitative yeah ideas yeah this this competition is is organized by the in the association and I think is their plan to next year to 1,000 new ideas.

Yeah, this is this is the final round. No, well, there are two rounds in the finals, but this is the final. So before that, schools or or young generation themselves, they they think of things and and then they they work on that in order to be able to fill in the application to to have the video, to have the description, to have a kind of well not a business model, but still define the value that it could bring. and so on. So many of these ideas uh do not make it to a full application because of many things. So yeah, you could be right that behind the 600 who were presented as an application uh on the the final round nationally there can be thousands more uh which were stopped in the process.

For me it's like to to watch on an iceberg so you only can see the tops. So this 600 will only be the top of the iceberg. Exactly. But uh it will spark a lot of creativity. It will definitely upskill these young people. Even though they don't make the finals, they still learn some things um on the way. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end and that's just happening with this episode of Digit Podcast. Um so um Mick Domesh thank you very much for being with us today and helping us [music] understand the similarities and also the differences of the challenges and the way of innovation inmemes in [music] Hungary and Denmark and of course uh a bit about the forme project uh of which you can find out uh a lot of more interesting stuff on the website of [music] the project I suppose. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. Heat. Heat. [music]